"Moment of Zen"

• E116: Curtis Yarvin is now in the Overton Window w/ Samo Burja

  Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja analyze Curtis Yarvin's arguments about government inefficiency, comparing corporate and state governance structures. The conversation covers how bureaucracies decay over time, China's approach to governance, and Yarvin's influence in shifting Silicon Valley libertarians toward more right-wing positions. They also examine his evolution from a cancelled figure to a mainstream intellectual voice. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess  🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse  — SPONSOR: NOTION | NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | SQUAD Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/upstreampod Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen. Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen. Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist. — RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod  — HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE: Curtis Yarvin's influence on tech-right thinking challenged conventional political discourse through digital platforms. Corporate efficiency doesn't follow natural selection principles - institutional success requires active leadership rather than market forces alone. Government accountability and innovation are stifled by bureaucratic gridlock, with catastrophic potential costs to society (exemplified by China's one-child policy). Mainstream political ideologies (left & right) are more aligned than they appear, suggesting democracy isn't the final stage of political evolution. Engaging with controversial thinkers like Yarvin reveals important critiques of current systems, even when disagreeing with their proposed solutions. Societal progress requires harnessing collective energy and maintaining efficient governance structures.

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• E115: Trump's Inauguration, Tech's Shifting Politics, and US GDP Growth Wall

  Today on Moment of Zen, we're bringing you the third episode of "This Won't Last", the newest show from Turpentine. Keith Rabois, Logan Bartlett, Kevin Ryan, and Zach Weinberg dissect the 2025 political landscape in a spirited discussion of Trump's evolved messaging and surprising tech industry backing. The conversation weaves through immigration policy, corporate political neutrality, and market dynamics - from Silicon Valley's rightward shift to urban crime challenges and insurance markets and explores how America's tech-policy nexus is reshaping in real-time. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess  🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse  — SPONSOR: NOTION | NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | SQUAD Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/upstreampod Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen. Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen. Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist. — RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod  — HIGHLIGHTS: 2024 Election Results Analysis of Trump's victory and polling accuracy Impact of inflation on voter behavior Discussion of electoral trends and campaign dynamics Tech Industry Political Evolution Shift in tech leadership support for Trump administration Energy and regulatory policy influences Corporate political donations trends Workplace Politics Corporate stance on political issues Employee activism and company responses Evolution of DEI initiatives New York Public Safety Crime statistics analysis Impact of bail reform Mental health policy challenges Law enforcement strategies California Natural Disasters Insurance market responses Property rebuilding regulations Market pricing dynamics in crisis situations Healthcare Regulation State licensing restrictions Market inefficiencies Professional interest group influence

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  1:13:43
• E114: Scott Sumner & Noah Smith Debate the China Question

  As China surges past the combined manufacturing might of Western democracies, economists Scott Sumner and Noah Smith square off on America's industrial future. While agreeing on economic fundamentals, they clash over the gravity of China's rise - Sumner advocating measured engagement while Smith warns of an unprecedented shift in global power requiring bold policy action. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess  🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse  — SPONSOR: ORACLE | NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | ADQUICK ☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at https://oracle.com/turpentine/ Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen. Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen Say goodbye to the headaches of out-of-home advertising. AdQuick combines technology, OOH expertise, and data to enable efficient, seamless ad buying across the globe. Visit https://adquick.com/ to start reaching your customers in the real world. — RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod — HIGHLIGHTS: Core Agreement Areas: Both are skeptical of partisan justifications for industrial policy (Democrats' "good jobs" focus and Republicans' "America First" stance) Both agree liberalization, not industrial policy, drove China's rapid growth Climate Change & Green Tech: Sumner argues Biden's green subsidies were undermined by trade barriers against Chinese EVs/solar Smith counters that China's industrial policy in green tech has actually helped global climate goals by scaling production and reducing costs Central Point of Disagreement - China Threat: Sumner sees Russia as the bigger immediate threat and warns against needlessly antagonizing China Smith argues we've entered a new era where China's manufacturing dominance (especially in military-relevant technologies like drones and batteries) fundamentally threatens democratic nations Biden vs Trump Policy Results: Both criticize Trump's tariffs as ineffective Smith points to success of Biden's CHIPS Act and IRA in boosting domestic manufacturing of critical technologies Sumner suggests many industrial policies are based on misconceptions about macroeconomics Manufacturing Strategy: Sumner advocates addressing trade deficits through fiscal policy and savings rates Smith emphasizes the need to maintain manufacturing parity in specific dual-use technologies They differ on whether total manufacturing capacity or specific industrial capabilities matter more for national security

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  58:24
• E113: Understanding Trump: From Immigration to Elon w/ Maxwell Meyer & Indian Bronson

  Editor of Arena magazine Maxwell Meyer and pseudonymous writer Indian Bronson join Erik Torenberg for part 3 of the immigration series. They discuss the evolving dynamics between Trump's tech and MAGA supporters, cutting through online drama to examine how both sides might find common ground on immigration, talent, and America's future. This is part 3 to Bronson's earlier Moment of Zen episodes, Debating Immigration Policy and Bronson vs Everyone: H-1B Wars, Elon, and Trump — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess  🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse  — SPONSOR: NETSUITE | ORACLE Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen. ☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at https://oracle.com/turpentine/ — RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod — RELATED LINKS: Debating Immigration Policy: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4xR2aTcekJ60GFgTXMKGy4?si=DjML853wSLOUTmWAyqgv9g Everyone: H-1B Wars, Elon, and Trump: https://open.spotify.com/episode/79JNQHaxTKEfhkWL1pT1NH?si=NqEewJYuTlqoYDqpfxChhw Indian Bronson Substack: https://indianbronson.substack.com/ Max Meyer's Arena Magazine: https://arenamag.com/ — X / TWITTER: @mualphaxi (Max Meyer) @Indian_Bronson (Indian Bronson) @eriktorenberg (Erik) @turpentinemedia @MOZ_Podcast — HIGHLIGHTS: I. Tech/Nationalist Right Conflict & Alliance Online clash over immigration policy. Debate on whether the tech/nationalist alliance is genuine or just expedient. Core agreement on stopping illegal immigration, but disagreements on legal routes. II. Trump & Immigration Trump's long-held views on attracting high-skilled talent. Discussion of H1B visa program abuse and potential reforms. Trump's stance as pro-legal immigration, but anti-illegal immigration. III. Key Themes Online vs. reality: online debates are often more extreme. Trump & Musk: Similarities in their hands-on approach and detail-oriented style. Power: Elon Musk’s unique influence in the Trump orbit. Critique of "Hick Lib" politicians like Tim Walz, and his inauthenticity. IV. Predictions Democrats likely to do well in 2026 House elections. Focus on deportations under Trump. Continued alliance between Trump and Musk. V. Nuances of Immigration Debate Discussion on the usefulness of Country Caps. Unintended consequences of affirmative action. Welfare differences between US and Europe. The importance of high-skilled immigration to economic growth, with caveats. VI. Closing Thoughts Real conversation between powerful people took place. Emphasis on balancing economic benefits with the idea of America as a nation with shared history. Emphasis on trusting figures like Trump, J.D. Vance and those around them.

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  1:17:20
• E112: Bronson vs Everyone: H-1B Wars, Elon, and Trump

  From Elon's immigration takes to Silicon Valley's clash with MAGA nationalists, this conversation between Erik Torenberg and Indian Bronson, a pseudonymous writer, dives deep into tech's newest culture war. Indian Bronson breaks down why Trumps's coalition has split over this issue and why America's elite and working class can't see eye to eye. This is part 2 to Bronson's earlier Moment of Zen episode, Debating Immigration Policy. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess  🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse  — SPONSOR: ORACLE ☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at https://oracle.com/turpentine/ — RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. Founders Fund's Delian Asparouhov and researcher Nadia Asparouhova kick off the series with an unfiltered conversation about their relationship evolution. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod — RELATED LINKS: Debating Immigration Policy: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4xR2aTcekJ60GFgTXMKGy4?si=DjML853wSLOUTmWAyqgv9g Indian Bronson Substack: https://indianbronson.substack.com/ Bernie Sanders: The Vox conversation: https://www.vox.com/2015/7/28/9014491/bernie-sanders-vox-conversation — X / TWITTER: @Indian_Bronson (Indian Bronson) @eriktorenberg (Erik) @turpentinemedia @MOZ_Podcast — HIGHLIGHTS Political Coalition Discussion: Discussion of Trump's winning coalition between nationalists and technologists Highlights tension between nationalist interests and tech industry goals Mentions Elon Musk's role in energizing the electorate for Trump Immigration Policy Debate: Detailed discussion of H1B visa program (approximately 85,000 workers annually) Contrast between different types of skilled immigration: Legitimate cases (like Elon Musk's companies hiring specialized talent) Problematic cases (like Disney's IT staff replacement controversy) Criticism of current immigration system as satisfying narrow interests rather than broader American needs "America First" Philosophy: Emphasis on policies benefiting Americans primarily Discussion of obligations to American citizens versus immigrants Comparison with other countries' policies (Singapore, Japan mentioned as examples) Cultural and Economic Issues: Discussion of declining American metrics (youth suicide rates, marriage rates, patriotism) Critique of promises made to Americans regarding economic policies Debate about automation and future of work Bernie Sanders Reference: Discussion of Sanders' 2015 interview with Ezra Klein Sanders' opposition to open borders as a "right wing proposal" His concern about impact on American workers Tech Culture Commentary: Discussion of "jock vs. nerd" dynamic in American culture Criticism of changes in NASA's culture and tech sector Advocacy for "jock-nerd alliances" as beneficial for innovation Call to Action: Encouragement for Americans feeling left behind to reach out Emphasis on opportunities still available for starting businesses Offer of guidance and introductions to VCs

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