Spurred on by Trump, Covid, and climate change, leaders are taking a more hands-on approach to shaping markets that would be seen as impossible a few years ago—but as our guest today argues, this kind of marketcraft is actually a long American tradition. Today, Matt and David welcome Chris Hughes, one of Facebook's founders, to the show to talk about his new book Marketcrafters. The book demolishes the myth that government and the free market were ever truly separate entities and examines the oft-forgotten stories of how policymakers on both sides of the aisle have used their power to craft markets to both good and bad ends.This week also marks the beginning of the FTC's trial against Meta, an action Chris called for back in 2019 in The New York Times. We get Chris's take on the trial, plus a dispatch from Matt, who has been watching the proceedings go down at the courthouse. To learn about Chris's new book Marketcrafters, check out his Substack: https://chrishughes749530.substack.comRead Chris's 2019 op-ed calling for Facebook to be broken up: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/09/opinion/sunday/chris-hughes-facebook-zuckerberg.html
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58:44
Breaking Monopolies from the Inside with Jonathan Kanter
Ever wonder what it's like to take on Google with a tiny government team? In this episode David and Matt are back with part two of their interview with Jonathan Kanter, who until recently led the DOJ's antitrust team. Kanter doesn't hold back, sharing what really happens when you sue tech giants, meatpackers, and ticket monopolies while working with government resources (read: not much). He talks about the challenges, the courtroom drama, and even brings some laughs to the table—somehow Groucho Marx glasses get involved! It's a fascinating insider look at fighting corporate power from someone who's actually been in the room.
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55:53
The Business of Big Law
Since taking office in January, Trump has issued several executive orders targeting major Democratic-aligned law firms, revoking their security clearances and threatening the government contracts of their clients. These law firms are among the "big law" firms that not only wield a great deal of money and power in Washington but also play a significant role in the political establishments of both parties. In this episode, Matt and David deconstruct how big law works with Jonathan Kanter, former head of the Antitrust Division of the Justice Department and a former partner at a big law firm. They discuss how these firms make their money, how they became so deeply enmeshed in our politics, and the consequences of Trump's actions, including the chilling effect they are having and the potential for a new way of organizing the Democratic Party. This is part 1 of a 2 part episode with Jonathan Kanter, next week we discuss his work at the Antitrust Division, and the future of anti-monopoly policy.
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49:39
Cheater Sizes and Other Dirty Secrets of Big Grocery Stores
Why is it that Walmart can sell bananas for less than what an independent grocer pays for it wholesale? In this episode, David and Matt expose how major retailers like Walmart and Dollar Stores use their sheer size to strong-arm suppliers into giving them special deals—while smaller, independent grocers are stuck paying higher prices. They talk to Randy Arceneaux, CEO of Affiliated Foods, and antitrust lawyer Chris Jones about how this system is not only unfair but likely illegal under the long-ignored Robinson-Patman Act, which bans price discrimination. From grocery wholesalers forced to “subsidize” Walmart, to toilet paper and pet food shortages that only seem to affect smaller stores, to how credit card fees hit independents much harder, this episode unpacks how monopolistic practices are reshaping the grocery business—and why the fight to fix it is heating up.
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58:35
Trump's Showdown At The FTC with Commissioner Alvaro Bedoya
On March 18th, the White House sent a letter to the two democratic commissioners at the FTC that they had been fired. Clear Supreme Court precedent reinforces that FTC commissioners cannot be fired at-will by the executive. So what happens next? Today on the show Matt and David talk to one of those commissioners, Alvaro Bedoya, about his attempted firing. They discuss the context, consequences, and legal precedent of what's happening at the FTC, along with Trump's potential goals, the importance of the commission's work, and the uncertain future of an agency in crisis.
Organized Money is a podcast about how the business world really works, and how corporate consolidation and monopolies are dominating every sector of our economy. The series is hosted by writers and journalists Matt Stoller and David Dayen, both thought leaders in the antimonopoly movement. Organized Money is a fresh spin on business reporting, one that goes beyond supply and demand curves or odes to visionary entrepreneurs. Each week Matt and David break down the ways monopolies control everything from the food we eat, to the drugs we take, the way we communicate and even how we date. You’ll hear from workers, business leaders, antitrust lawyers, and policymakers who are on the front lines of the fight for open markets and fair competition.If you care about an economy that is free and open, one not controlled by a handful of corporations, Organized Money is for you. New episodes out every week until the end of the year. Organized Money is a Rock Creek Sound production, from executive producers Ari Saperstein and Ellen Weiss, and senior producer Benjamin Frisch.
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