Panicogenic Relaxation: Why You Feel Anxious When Feeling CalmYou're finally feeling better. The anxiety has lifted. You're relaxed and calm for the first time in months or even years. So why does that feel so weird? And why are you suddenly anxious about feeling calm?In this episode, Drew and Josh explore "panicogenic relaxation". This is a common experience in anxiety disorder recovery where feeling normal, neutral, or relaxed can trigger concern or even high anxiety and panic. When you've been anxious for so long, that heightened state becomes your predictable default. The absence of anxiety can feel unfamiliar, strange, or even threatening.In this episode, we discuss:Why feeling calm or relaxed can feel uncomfortable or even scary during recoveryHow your brain's scanning mechanisms continue even when you're no longer anxiousWhy anxiety becomes a "predictable pillar" after long periods of struggleThe importance of practicing being relaxed, not just practicing being anxiousHow the shock-attention-resistance cycle continues even when you're feeling betterWhy all emotional states - including calm - need to be permissibleHow to recognize when you're still checking and monitoring even during neutral statesWe also share inspiring "Did It Anyway" stories from the community, including someone who kept pushing through fatigue to go to new places, and another who took their first step away from 13 years of self-medication.---Want a way to ask questions about this episode or interact with other Disordered listeners? The Disordered app is nearing release! Visit our home page and get on our mailing list for more information..---Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out Worry and Rumination Explained, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.
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Anxiety Recovery - Learning To Believe In Yourself Again (Episode 131)
When anxiety and its relentless inner critic take hold, one of the most profound losses is the belief and trust in your own capability. In this episode, Drew and Josh explore how to rebuild self-trust after anxiety disorders erode your confidence in handling life's challenges.The conversation centers on stories from listeners who confronted their worst-case scenarios—from emergency medical situations while struggling with agoraphobia and panic disorder, to managing health anxiety during actual illness, to facing feared social situations despite OCD. Each story illustrates a crucial truth: the anticipation is almost always worse than the actual experience, and we're far more capable than anxiety tells us we are.The guys discuss why simply deciding to believe in yourself doesn't work, and what actually does: the unglamorous, minute-by-minute work of doing the scary things anyway. They examine how anxiety functions like a conspiracy theory about yourself, predicting catastrophic outcomes that rarely materialize. The hosts also explore how well-meaning but misguided advice to avoid difficult situations or regulate away uncomfortable feelings can actually undermine self-belief rather than restore it.This episode emphasizes that rebuilding confidence isn't about making anxiety disappear—it's about discovering through lived experience that you can handle difficult emotions, uncomfortable sensations, and challenging situations. The path back to self-belief requires compassion, patience, and a willingness to challenge the loud but ultimately unreliable predictions of fear and doubt.Grounded in acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT) and mindfulness-based approaches, this conversation offers a realistic, evidence-based perspective on recovery that honors both the difficulty of the journey and the resilience we all possess.---Want a way to ask questions about this episode or interact with other Disordered listeners? The Disordered app is nearing release! Visit our home page and get on our mailing list for more information..---Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out Worry and Rumination Explained, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.-----Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or leave a voicemail on our website.
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Craig The Critic (Episode 130)
In this episode, Drew and Josh explore the powerful role of the internal critic—affectionately named "Craig"—in maintaining anxiety disorders and interfering with recovery. They discuss how this nagging inner voice criticizes, questions, and doubts us, often telling us we're doing things wrong or that we'll never be who we hope to be.Let's examine where Craig the Critic comes from, including family dynamics, conditional affection, societal pressures, and social media comparisons. The episode explains how this critical voice drives us toward impossible standards and fuels the "should" statements that keep us stuck: "You should be feeling this," "You should be better by now," or "You should be like everyone else."The guys discuss how Craig the Critic shows up across different anxiety presentations—from OCD to agoraphobia to panic disorder—and how this voice can block the learning that happens during exposure work. They explore how the internal critic constantly demands we fix, control, and change our anxiety rather than learning to respond differently to it.A key theme in this episode is compassion as the antidote to self-criticism, how moving toward what matters to us—guided by our values rather than Craig's demands—helps us break free from the cycle of criticism and avoidance. We're also tackling the common misconception that we need harsh self-criticism to keep us in check, when in reality, it often keeps us trapped in disordered patterns.The episode features inspiring "Did It Anyway" stories from listeners who faced their fears despite Craig's objections, including someone starting a new job, another taking their children on challenging outings, and a future firefighter who completed a demanding physical fitness test while experiencing panic symptoms.Topics Covered:Understanding the internal critic and where it originatesHow self-criticism maintains anxiety disordersThe difference between helpful self-evaluation and destructive criticismWhy comparing yourself to your "pre-anxious" self backfiresThe role of compassion in anxiety recoveryHow Craig the Critic interferes with exposure work and learningPractical ways to recognize and respond differently to the critical voiceThis episode may be particularly helpful for those who struggle with perfectionism, harsh self-judgment, or feeling like they're failing at recovery.---Want a way to ask questions about this episode or interact with other Disordered listeners? The Disordered app is nearing release! Visit our home page and get on our mailing list for more information..---Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out Worry and Rumination Explained, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.-----Want to participate in an episode of Disordered? Send us an email or leave a voicemail on our website.
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Anxiety Symptoms - AIR HUNGER (Episode 129)
In this episode of Disordered, Drew and Josh tackle one of the most frightening anxiety symptoms: air hunger - that terrifying feeling that you can't get a deep enough breath or fully fill your lungs.Drew and Josh draw from both their clinical expertise and personal recovery experiences to explain why this sensation happens, why trying to "fix" your breathing often makes things worse, and how the compulsive need to control your breath can actually create the problem you're trying to solve.They explore how air hunger connects to stress, anxiety disorders, and OCD, discussing why breathing techniques and breath work - while potentially helpful for general stress - can become problematic compulsions when you're dealing with disordered anxiety. The hosts emphasize a key principle: there's a critical difference between feeling like you can't breathe and actually not being able to breathe.The episode includes inspiring "Did It Anyway" stories from listeners who faced their fears - from pushing through panic during a music gig, to driving 40 minutes despite intense anxiety, to confronting her OCD fears, and a transformation from being unable to stay in a room alone to enjoying solo time at home.Drew and Josh offer practical guidance rooted in acceptance-based approaches: get out of your own way, let your body regulate itself naturally, and resist the urge to constantly check, control, or perfect your breathing. As they remind listeners, your body has successfully kept you breathing your entire life - it doesn't need micromanagement now.Topics covered:What air hunger is and why it happensThe connection between stress, anxiety, and breathing sensationsWhy breathing techniques can become compulsionsThe role of interoceptive exposure in treatmentHow to respond when you notice air hunger (hint: not by trying to control it)Why sleep proves your body knows how to breathe on its ownWhether you're experiencing air hunger yourself or supporting someone who is, this episode offers a compassionate, reality-based approach to one of anxiety's most unsettling symptoms.
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How Long Does De-Sensitization Take? (Episode 128)
One of the most common questions we hear from people working through anxiety disorders and OCD is: "How long is this going to take?" In this episode, Drew and Josh tackle the timeline question head-on—but probably not in the way you're expecting.We explore why asking "how long until I recover?" might be the wrong question, and why shifting to "how long until I'm desensitized?" can be a game-changer in how you approach your anxiety journey. We discuss the reality that there's no universal timeline, no magic number of weeks, and why that's actually okay.In this episode:Why the concept of "recovery" as a finish line may not be helpful for anxiety disordersThe difference between recovery and desensitizationHow urgency and pressure can actually slow your progressWhy some people seem to progress faster than others (and why that doesn't matter)The role of self-compassion, patience, and realistic expectationsWhy hard days are a normal part of the process—even after significant progressHow perfectionism and the need for certainty can keep you stuckWe also share inspiring "Did It Anyway" stories from listeners who are moving forward with their lives—traveling, attending events, and even jumping into mosh pits—alongside their anxiety, not waiting for it to disappear first.Whether you're struggling with panic disorder, agoraphobia, OCD, health anxiety, or other anxiety disorders, this episode offers a realistic, compassionate perspective on what it means to make progress and why the journey looks different for everyone.---Want a way to ask questions about this episode or interact with us and other Disordered listeners? The Disordered app is nearing release! Visit our home page and get on our mailing list for more information..---Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out Worry and Rumination Explained, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.-----Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or leave a voicemail on our website.
Disordered is the podcast that delivers real, evidence-based, actionable talk about anxiety disorders and anxiety recovery in a kind, compassionate, community-oriented environment. Josh Fletcher is a qualified psychotherapist in the UK. Drew Linsalata is a therapist practicing under supervision in the US. They're both bestselling authors in the anxiety and mental health space. Josh and Drew are funny, friendly, and they have a knack for combining lived experience, formal training, and professional experience in an encouraging, inspiring, and compassionate mental health message.
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